Posts by Cold Steel

31

They made me throw away a windchime!!!

by quellycatface in

i had a lovely mirrored windchime in my house.

my study conductor told me it attracted deemunz and i threw it in the trash.

i've since bought another.. what's the reasoning behind that idiocy??

According to JW.org it's now ok to celebrate xmas.....pass it on! Faders..Lurkers...SEE THIS

by Lied2NoMore in

one fb friend posted the faq link about "why dont jw's celebrate xmas?

" after reading the link i concluded that it is either another collossal lie the wt is telling, or it is now ok to celebrate x-mas!.

from jw.org faq:.

Ever consider joining The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

by rawe in

has anyone here left jehovah's witnesses to join the churuch of jesus christ of latter-day saints?

what was your motivation for doing so and how has it worked out?.

if you haven't joined the lds or considered it, as an ex-jw, what is your general view of the lds faith?.

Cold Steel

Band On the Run: Why would anyone here even consider becoming Mormon? They make the Witnesses look sane.

It would be nice if people would explain their reasoning. It all depends on what one knows and understands. I know quite a bit about both religions, and I can’t cobble up any reasons why I’d prefer being a Witness. As pointed out, we don’t skunk people like the Jehovah’s Witnesses do; we can attend church anywhere we wish; we’re actually encouraged to seek higher education; we don’t have any restrictions on religious materials that we read; our eschatology is far more in line with early Christianity and Judaism; we have an incredible welfare system; our scholars are recognized outside of our religion; and, if one believes in ancient Christianity, we don’t believe in anything outside of those bounds, meaning, of course, angels, revelation, apostles and prophets and gifts of the Spirit.

So in what way does all this make the Jehovah’s Witnesses look sane? Or, possibly, we have two different ideas what sanity is all about.

Rawe/Randy: The reason why I've been pointing to 2 Nephi 22, is it shows a translation style of the KJV translators. Where the divine name YHWH appears in Hebrew, they typically did not translate it, but instead substituted the word LORD.

The translation issue is one of the far most misunderstood issue of the religion. We LDS have never claimed that Joseph Smith used the same translating process as scholars and linguists. We even have no issues with the KJV of Isaiah being used in the Book of Mormon, as long as the translations are accurate. For example, people get upset when they see the word “Christ” being used in the translation of a Hebrew document produced several hundred years B.C. Mormons understand that “Messiah” would have worked equally as well, but “Christ” means the same thing in English. Or the word “adieu” in the book of Jacob. It wasn’t the word Jacob used or even a derivation of it, but readers of the Book of Mormon knew what the word meant, and it was a word that Smith knew and used in his day. So again, the final and enduring question is and remains, is the Book of Mormon translated correctly? And our reply is, it is.

Note: This article, from BBC, reports these gold
plates date back to 600 B.C., same date as the
gold plates found by Joseph Smith.

Following the directions given in the Book of Mormon, members of
the Nephi Project ended up just where Nephi did...in a great valley
("steadfast and immovable"), with a stream of water running con-
tinually through it. Subsequent research showed the encampment
dates back to 600 B.C. So did the river of water.

1 Nephi 2:9-10: And when my father saw that the waters of the river emptied into the fountain of the Red Sea, he spake unto Laman, saying: O that thou mightest be like unto this river, continually running into the fountain of all righteousness! And he also spake unto Lemuel: O that thou mightest be like unto this valley, firm and steadfast, and immovable in keeping the commandments of the Lord!

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43

Disciplinary Actions

by Cold Steel in

during a disciplinary procedure, what would the response be if you wanted representation?

an advocate?.

why don't they have a group of unbiased men, a prosecutor to present the case against you and an advocate that would represent the accused?

Cold Steel

Thank you all for your responses. Alas, I fear we may drive off The Dawg if everyone jumps down his throat. He's one of the few active JW members (and an elder to boot) that is actually interactive. Others posit hit and run messages and almost never, if ever, respond to replies. I hope he sticks around.

Rawe/Randy: There are very good reasons why court systems in most countries work they way they do. Why everything spoken in court is recorded. How evidence is handled, how questions are asked and responded to, etc.

Yep, and it’s one reason the bill of rights under the U.S. Constitution was deemed so important to the very liberty the Jehovah’s Witnesses enjoy. I suspect that if a town court prosecuted the JWs, and sought to deny them representation, that they would vigorously appeal it as both illegal and unfair. You know what they say about people who represent themselves (“they have fools for clients”). How, then, can they deny that the courts are the prosecutors? The scripture states that in the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established. Often the courts include the witnesses themselves and, if not, the elders many times are unduly influenced by the witnesses.

This allows for many ways in which the pooch is screwed. First, what happens if one doesn’t confess, but simply repents? Armageddon comes and what happens? This good person who has repented gets blasted into oblivion? Not if their God is just, merciful and loving. If the person has a heavenly hope, does he get demoted to one of the great crowd?

Also, here’s a hypothetical. Jim is hauled into the church court and accused of committing certain indiscretions (because, after all, slaves have to be discreet). Although he denies the charges, the court has witnesses, and 1) because he has denied them and, 2) because he fails to confess and repent of them, he’s disfellowshiped. His friends and employer skunk him and though he manages to keep his job, his reputation is ruined. And, a year later, when he seeks to be reinstated so he can get married, he’s asked if he’s repented. So he confesses and is reinstated.

Now Jim, who was out, is now back in. Two weeks after his marriage, he makes an appointment with the judicial committee to confess about another transgression. The elders and overseer are agitated, but they agree to a meeting. Jim shows up and, when given the floor, admits to having willfully borne false witness to the previous court. He lied, he admits, when he confessed to having committed the offenses he was charged with. He also lied when he said he repented of them because he never actually had anything to repent of.

So what happens?

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139

Ever consider joining The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

by rawe in

has anyone here left jehovah's witnesses to join the churuch of jesus christ of latter-day saints?

what was your motivation for doing so and how has it worked out?.

if you haven't joined the lds or considered it, as an ex-jw, what is your general view of the lds faith?.

Cold Steel

Cofty:Mormon "scholars" are wasting their time polishing a turd.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, baseless as it is. If you had an advanced degree in ancient scripture or had committed yourself to any serious critical study, I might be more impressed. But I’ve read some of your other posts here, Cofty, and find they’re of almost no substance. You also tend to lift your points from other sources without doing any of your own groundwork. In short, if I'm polishing turds, you're throwing them. You put quotes around the word "scholars" but you know nothing about them or their backgrounds. You cite no examples of shoddy work, so you're just engaging in ad hominem attacks and essentially nothing more.

I have read large parts of the book. It's childish nonsense.

See? You did it again. Which parts of the book, exactly, are childish nonsense? And why do we have to ask? Again, based on your other posts on this website, you apparently think people are interested in your opinions without your having to back them up or document them. There are numerous non-Mormon scholars of ancient scripture who do not share your views of the Book of Mormon. Why should your views be valued over theirs?

When Joe Smith wrote down the parts he clearly plagiarized from the King James bible why did he not have the wit to update the language?

Just which parts are you referring to? Nephi and other prophets in the Western Hemisphere had the book of Isaiah and likened portions of it to themselves; however, these passages were very intelligently used and applied. They just weren’t data dumps. And if you compare the texts, they also weren’t word-for-word transliterations. Many verses contained corrections, and some passages were more closely related to the Septuagint than the KJV. Here is one article that may enlighten you. And here are some others:

Does the Book of Mormon plagiarize the King James Bible?

Discrepancies Between Translations?.

The Nephites carried with them their scriptures, which meant they not only had the same scriptures we had up to that time, but others we don’t have. And the Hebrews didn’t have the strict attribution rules we do in our culture today. Note these two quotes, one from Isaiah and one from Micah. Did one quote the other, or did they both quote another source we don’t have? Or could the Holy Spirit have dictated the same to both? So yes, whatever is happening here could also have happened in the Book of Mormon.

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2+2=5:Were you once a JW Cold Steel? Why the fascination with this site? Are you here to convert us?

If I am here to convert you guys, I’m making a lot of headway, don’t you think?

No, for a long time I never mentioned my religion. Then someone either asked me what religion I was or I jumped in to a conversation about how Mormons were no better than Jehovah’s Witnesses and came to the defense of the LDS church, then came the cascade of insults.

When I had some JW missionaries over for a “Bible” study back in 2006, I also refused (at first) to tell them my religion. Why? (they asked). Because as soon as I tell you my religion, the discussion will change to what’s wrong with my religion and not what’s right about yours. No, they wouldn’t do that, they said. So I told them. The very next session, the two guys showed up with a guy they called an elder. Rather than sitting back in their seats like the other two, this elder sat on the very edge of the sofa. Then, bang, he began this attack on the LDS church. The other two guys just looked at him as though he were Gandhi and let him rant. We argued about premortality, the Godhead, theosis—you name it. Then he started in to “adding to the Bible” as warned about in the book of Revelation. (Apparently he didn’t know that that passage only refers to that one book and not the entire Bible, but we talked about that, too.)

I’ve always been interested in religion...all religion. Also, back a number of years ago, part of the family joined the Jehovah’s Witnesses. They immediately cut the rest of the family off and we never heard much from them after that. So that’s probably one of the biggest reasons I’m here. (If you really have to know, I’m actually here to secretly convert Cofty, but don’t tell him. I’m making a lot of progress.)

Actually, I don't mind people asking me about Mormonism, but I prefer they contact me by PM rather than start a thread that doesn't have anything to do with Jehovah's Witnesses. Oh, and BTW, I didn't start this thread. I just responded to some misunderstandings.

139

Ever consider joining The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

by rawe in

has anyone here left jehovah's witnesses to join the churuch of jesus christ of latter-day saints?

what was your motivation for doing so and how has it worked out?.

if you haven't joined the lds or considered it, as an ex-jw, what is your general view of the lds faith?.

Cold Steel

Pre-Columbian Wheels
Just a few years ago, no one thought the Mayans had wheels, yet toys have now been found with wheels. The Book of Mormon also mentions level roads, and in Mesoamerica are the only level roads ever discovered. Most use the Roman design, which has a higher top so water runoff would occur; however, the Mayans didn't need or use such roads. And why would they have such large roads if there were no wheels? But back in the 60s, archeologists found four massive wheels of stone with square peg holes cut in the middle. They were enormous. Besides, how did they get the stones from the quarries if they didn't have conveyances of some sort? And what pulled them?

Anachronisms: Our scholars have made a list and have been checking it twice. So why do the list of anachronisms continue to plummet like a rock? In 1842, our list had only eight confirmed; in 2005, it has dropped to 36 confirmed. If the Book of Mormon was false, it should be going the other direction. When the Book of Mormon first appeared, do any of you guys know how many gold or other metal plates had ever been discovered with writing on them? Close your eyes...whaddya see? That's right, nothing! No gold plates in stone boxes in ancient America or ancient Old World. Now they've been found all over the place.

Chariots

Proof of wheels didn't exist until fairly recently.

Book of Mormon Animals

Deutero-Isaiah and the Book of Mormon
Isaiah in the Book of Mormon

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qkydMSmv1Zo

6

Jesus The Archangel

by cipher7836 in

hi all, i joined to learn more about jws.

is it true that you guys believe that jesus is an archangel?

i'm confused on this point..

Cold Steel

Yes, it's one of the more bizarre points of the religion.

We can find out who Jesus was in the premortal life by going to the book of Zechariah. Regardless of what the JWs say, Armageddon will happen in the Middle East, in Jerusalem. We know this by reading Ezek. 38-39, Zech. 12-14, and Rev. 11-13. All these things occur in Jerusalem, without a doubt. But let's just concentrate on Zechariah's passages.

As we see, this will happen in the day that Jehovah will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. Clearly this has not yet happened because the last time Jerusalem was beseiged, the Romans won and then scattered the Jews to the four corners of the earth, as the prophets had foreseen. So we see Jehovah saying, "And they shall look upon me whom they have pierced." Who was pierced? Jesus. We then see the embedded references to "only son" and "his firstborn," titles of the Son of God, again Jesus. And after the Jews see that he is pierced, what do the Jews do? They go into mourning. Why? Because they'll know that their messiah is Jesus Christ, and that they and their fathers had made a terrible mistake. Zechariah also writes:

This really doesn't need a comment, but.... Again Jerusalem is under seige and, again, Jehovah is coming to fight their battles. As Jesus ascended into Heaven after his resurrection, the two angels told the apostles that he would come "in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." That was on the Mount of Olives. Now we see that Jehovah is coming and that "his feet" shall stand upon the Mount of Olives.

So my question to the Society is, whose feet are going to stand on the Mount of Olives that day? Sounds like Jesus, but the scripture states, "the Lord my God shall come." So as Methodist scholar Margaret Barker and other scholars have concluded, Jesus was known in premortality, not as Michael, but as Jehovah.

When Adam sinned, man needed an intercessor. That intercessor was Jehovah, the only begotten son of the Father. Thus, it was Jesus who was the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. That's why Jesus said, "Before Abraham was, I AM." It was a clear, concise statement that he was Yahweh, and it's why the Jews went berzerk and tried to stone him. So it may have gone over the heads of the Governing Body, but not the leaders of the Jews.

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6

Went to church for the first time in a long long time.

by Crazyguy in

well its been since i was around 5 years young that i last went to church.

so today i went to a church of a friend and it was very nice.

they sang some songs with a band, good songs unlike jw's.

Cold Steel

They have nothing to worry about from a Mormon standpoint, collectively speaking.

With all the various near death experiences I've read, the first question people are usually asked is, "What have you done for others?" Not, "Which church do you belong to?"

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6

Went to church for the first time in a long long time.

by Crazyguy in

well its been since i was around 5 years young that i last went to church.

so today i went to a church of a friend and it was very nice.

they sang some songs with a band, good songs unlike jw's.

Cold Steel

Yes, too bad those worldly people will be destroyed forever at Armageddon.

139

Ever consider joining The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

by rawe in

has anyone here left jehovah's witnesses to join the churuch of jesus christ of latter-day saints?

what was your motivation for doing so and how has it worked out?.

if you haven't joined the lds or considered it, as an ex-jw, what is your general view of the lds faith?.

Cold Steel

Lisa Rose: I don't know why you keep posting on this board, nobody here will ever want to join the Mormons. One stupid cult is enough in a lifetime.w

Don't read it if you don't like it. I didn't think up this weird thread. I'd rather talk about Jehovah's Witnesses.

So unless anyone has anything pertinent to say: